I'm starting TRT legally!!

JdFlex

I'll be 33 years old this year. I cycled for several years (time on = time off). I haven't touched steroids in over 2 years. I feel my sex drive etc never really got back to where I was pre-steroids. I get my test levels checked yearly and they are usually around 250 - 300 ng/dl, which is the low end of the natural scale. So I started my own TRT, 50mg Sustanon every 4 days. Its not a high dose I know, I'm only looking to get back into the upper end of the normal range w/o any sides (hair loss specifically...and I have no plans to start any anti-hair loss meds).

So I'm at my urologist's office to schedule a vasectomy and we start talking about TRT and he seems really cool so I let him know I started my own TRT and he tells me to stop my shots, he gave me orders for a test check via blood work in one month. The test I was taking for a little over a month should have shut me down so I should come in well under the number for insurance to cover test prescriptions. He said either way he'll give me an rx for the test and I can still get it legally through mail order from Canada for dirt cheap if insurance won't cover it. The Dr is great, really sympathetic to the medical uses of test, not the old school type Dr's who balk at such therapies.

My plan is to cruise on test just to keep me in the higher end of the normal level, then cycle deca 10 weeks on 10 weeks off at like 150 - 200mgs per week, or something low in that neighborhood. My goals are to keep in excellent physical shape, increase energy levels, muscle recuperation time and sex drive. I mainly train for muscle endurance these days. It has done wonders for my back problems. I was on the test/deca combo for a little over a month and I felt great almost the whole time. I can't wait to get back on once I get the bloodwork done. I pretty much crashed about a week / week & a half after stopping use. Sex drive, energy levels, muscle recuperation time, etc all way down.

Yes I'm prepared to take shots for the rest of my life. Test is the best drug on the market IMO, I feel GREAT while taking it.

stbizzle

lucky guy I got mine tested and it was at the low end too but the doctor said it wasn't low enough yet

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The OJ

are we all finding that years after juicing our natural levels are low i wonder...i havent been tested but certainly had my fair share of misery and often wondered, i plan to go back on at some point this year and see how different i feel for sure.

cb25

i'm similar to stbizzle. my levels were hovering right around 300, lowest tested at 214, highest around 320.

went to see my new doc about it, he told me i was too young for testosterone (I'm 30), but that he would check my levels and refer me to a urologist. Levels came back at 342, highest they've been in 3-4yrs. Doc told me i should just cancel my appt with the uro b/c i'm "obviously fine"

I'm keeping the appt, wanted to talk to the uro about a vasectomy anyways...but i figure i'll ask his opinion as well. I'm not expecting much...damn HMO.

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JdFlex

I had blood drawn yesterday to check free / total test. So now I'm back on my own test routine until I get a RX for the real deal.

cb - you might have to do a bit of Dr shopping in the urologist dept, try to find someone on the younger side. My uro's office doubles as a "health and rejuvenation spa" that he's just getting under way with. That always a promising sign!

JdFlex

I totally lucked out finding this uro.

A buddy at work is on TRT and he had to go to his Dr office for quite a while to get the shot every 2 weeks. He finally lied to the Dr and told him his neighbor is a nurse and she'll give him the shots. The Dr finally relented. And he has my buddy at work going for bloodwork what seems like monthly to me.

I was telling all this to my uro and why I have no interest in going on real TRT with a Dr monitoring b/c with all my other Dr appointments and now with a 10 week old son there was no way I'd have time for all the appointments. So my uro says...what the hell you talking about...I'll show you how to inject and send you on your way...maybe once a year I'll have you get a liver test, that's about it.

THAT'S GOLD JERRY! GOLD!!

stbizzle

I don't know what they call obviously fine, but with no energy or sex drive I would say I was not fine.. It's about what doctor you see some are completely against somethings while other doctors know there are benefits to hormone replacement.. Of coarse I think it's funny when guys go in there 250+lbs and solid ripped muscle saying the need test..

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cb25

i know what you guys mean.

and stbizzle...i'm 250+lbs but far from ripped. I've gained quite a bit of fat the past couple years, and I'd definitely say i have low energy and low sex drive. i wear the higher bf fairly well b/c i'm a big guy anyways. my doc kept saying to me "but your not a fat guy, i don't see why there is a problem" Thanks, i think? I'm easily 25-30% bf which is by far the highest i've ever been.

and i don't have the option of shopping aroudn too much b/c my insurance is a fairly restrctive HMO. they dictate who I can see and most places are just patient mills...get them in, get them out asap. it's better than nothing, but doesn't allow for optimal care in any way.

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Anubis

That kind of thing is tricky with docs. Im doing my med-school residency rotations right now, and i notice that older gen docs dont know F&*$ about $hit when it comes to TRT, or anabolic steroids in general. The horrors and dangers of AAS are a persistent old-school dogma that only recently have been recognized as myopic.

Younger doctors (35 and below) will tend to be more utilitarian about exogenous testosterone's usefulness, while the older ones will stick to the paradigm from the 80's and 90's that steroids are worse than crack, so dont hesitate to find a different practitioner to reevaluate your test results. You have better chances finding a sympathetic endocrinologist than a urologist.
In regards to your actual values, 214 is a value low enough for a TRT protocol. Many Dr's dont realize TRT is more about maintenance and prevention.

For anyone curious how they stack up in terms of "average" test values (and so I don't look like a fuggin wannabe spouting his mouth w/o substantiation) I uploaded two figures from a study my mentors colleague conducted at mayo (see attachment). The first compares fluctuation of Free T and leutenizing hormone over a 5 minute period for a guy in his 20's, 40's, and some old ass mofo.

The second figure of 3 graphs are linear regressions demonstrating the trend in total, bioavailable, and free test for anyone who's curious what the normal levels are for their age.
CB25 in your case, your testosterone range is closer to someone in his early to mid 40's, enough deviation to warrant at least consideration for TRT, so try to hunt down a doc thats not a dildo

Attached Images

Test Deviations.jpg (192.4 KB, 9 views)

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JdFlex

Thanks for the contribution Anubis!!

JdFlex

Talk about low energy, I was feeling like hell that last week before my blood test, which was 5 weeks after taking my last test shot.

I should be getting my blood test results today. Very interested to see what it plummeted to.

BTS

great info Anubis!

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cb25

anubis...that was great, thanks for the insight.

i'm seeing the uro next week sometime, not expecting much - but figure it was such a pain to get the referral/appointment to begin with, i may as well see what he says.

ultimately, i want to switch back to the good PPO insurance where I can see anyone I damn well want to. then i can be a bit more aggresive in shopping around and finding a sympathetic doc. for now, i'll take what i can get.

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Codeblue

JD:

I'm 35 and in the same boat. 100mg Test Cyp every week. I can't say anything about your situation, but I wish I would of paid more attention to the PCT threads.

However, I can live with this. My initial Test level was 183.5. I've been tweaking it some. Its nice to not have to hussle or risk bathtub gear.

Best of luck. And I'd like to know more about the canadian pharm thing. Cause HG around here is $108.00 for 10ccs. I almost shit myself.

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JdFlex

My last cycle, closer to 3 years ago, was twice as long as my previous cycles, had twice as many compounds, and included some heavy androgens. That cycle was the only time I never recovered normally after a typical PCT. I had to use HCG to get my test back in to the normal range. Since then, like I said above, I never felt quite right. My test levels have been slowly decreasing every year so I said screw it, I'm putting myself on PCT.

My appointment to review blood test results and see what the Dr's says is Friday so I'll have more of an update then. I'll ask him about the CA pharmacy thing. I wonder if he has any legit websites to recommend to avoid the scams. I don't think I'll need that route personally b/c I'm betting my test will be low enough to get covered by insurance, but we'll see.

I'm also quite interested to see the effects of shooting pharmacy grade test. Every time I've ever shot any kind of test by itself its always resulted in massive swelling and debilitating pain. I can't imagine pharm grade would do that.

JdFlex

Met with my Dr.

Normal range of total test 250 - 1100 ng/dl.

Mine.........59.

Normal range of free test 35 - 155 pg/ml.

Mine........10.5.

So now I'm holding in my hands a 10ml vial of human grade test cyp 200mg/ml straight from the pharmacy, with 5 refills.

The whole appointment lasted 5 minutes. He's starting me on 100mg per week. He gave me the rx, asked if I needed needles (no), told me to contact him for bloodwork in 3 months and sent me on my way. He said at this dose I should be in the 500 - 600 range. I told him I want to be 800 - 900 but he said we'll see how I respond to it first.

I swear he was more excited than I was. GOLD MINE!!

Oh, I didn't get any further info on the Canadian pharmacy bit. If you have an rx, contact a CA pharmacy and have them ship it down here.

JdFlex

I'm also on 200mg deca per week for 10 weeks. I'd like to put on a bit of muscle, nothing major. I hope he doesn't get freaked out if I walk in there next time more muscled up. I already know what I'll say if that happens though.

JdFlex

I shot 0.5ml of the test by itself and not an ounce of discomfort. Quite interesting on a personal note the difference b/w pharm grade and UGL. I was worried my leg was going to be brutalized once again.

Anubis

A few hours before you go in next time you may want to take some melatonin and diphenhydramine. Deca tends to elevate blood pressure enough to alarm some doctors, and you dont want it to look like your TRT is having an adverse effect on your cardiovascular health. Melatonin and diphenhydramine will keep blood pressure values low enough to avoid your doc hassling you.



I hope you keep posting your experiences with true pharmacy grade testosterone, and how UGL's stack up comparatively.

This thread you started is becoming a fairly valuable contribution to the site in that it addresses so many common questions and issues people have about TRT. In fact, im gonna give you some arbitrary rep points cuz thats how i roll.

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JdFlex

I had a Dr visit with my primary the other day and my blood pressure was 138/80, not too bad. My next appt with the urologist is 2 weeks after the scheduled end of the deca. He wants me to get blood work to ensure no negative impact to liver function. That's his concern right now.

I've put on a bit of muscle. I'm 200lbs now with a 32" waist. Not massive by any means but in great shape.

Narkissos

What's your bodyfat percentage at now bro?

And how tall are you? (in case I missed it)

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JdFlex

I would say 15-16%ish, weighing in at 202lbs now, 6'0" tall.

My metabolism is moderately high and I have good control of my diet so I can cut down or bulk up at will. My problem has always been cutting without losing muscle and bulking without putting on too much fat.

Putting on fat is the result of too many calories, but I love watching the scale move up every week and all my lifts increase too.

Losing muscle I think is a byproduct of the fasted AM cardio I always did. Next time I try it I will always have a protein shake first. Or do during the middle of the day.

Any tips on adding muscle and not much fat? Probably just fine tune the diet huh?

Any tips on losing fat but not muscle?

Brutal Strength

Any particular reason you feel that way? Just looking for your opinion. Were you monitoring calorie intake/requirement levels?

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JdFlex

Every time I've bulked up and tried to drop the fat by using fasted AM cardio I inevitably always ended up looking pretty much how I did before bulking up and returned to the same strength levels. My first thought was that I never actually put on any muscle during the bulk, only fat. But that doesn't seem plausible b/c I was noticeably more muscled and much stronger. I thought maybe I dropped my calories too low too quickly so on subsequent cuts I brought my calories down very slowly and started the cardio at only a 10 minute fast walk and slowly increased that too. Always same frustrating result.

In his Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding Arnold says that during a starvation diet every pound of bodyweight lost is 60% muscle and 40% fat. The body is in a catabolic state upon waking from an 8 hour fast, which essentially means its starving, IMO. I think that's what's happened to me. It makes sense based on my experiences.

Next time I cut I am going to have a protein shake before AM cardio or do it during the day 2 - 3 hours after eating. I hope that makes the difference.

JdFlex

Just thought I'd post an update. I've been taking 100mg per week of test c. Got my new blood test results and test is 311ng/dl, normal is 250-1100. I commented I thought the number was low and my Dr said its in the normal range so he's happy with it. Ok. So I bumped up my dose to 140mg per week. I haven't mentioned it to my Dr yet. I'd rather be in the 600ng/dl neighborhood. Acne has been an ongoing problem. Sex drive is finally settling down, thank god. What a pain in the ass a high sex drive is. No problems with the hairline knock on wood!

The OJ

sounds good let us know what your levels rise to with the extra 40mgs per week, one of my major worries has always been hairloss, i havent juiced for ages only gh really, but i finally feel after a long year im finally getting somewhere with my food :) so might give it a go again soon

JdFlex

By my calculations, my test should only rise to the mid-400s level based on the extra 40mgs, which doesn't seem to make sense, but neither does a 311 level on 100mg.

If I started having problems with hairloss I would cut back on the test immediately. I'm not going to start using finasteride or dutasteride. I'm through with taking drugs to counter other drugs like we've all done while cycling.

My Dr is a urologist but his office doubles as a rejuvenation type center so I would think he also could give an RX for GH. I'd probably need blood work first. I don't think insurance would cover it though but at least it would be human grade straight from a US pharmacy, albeit expensive. I've never used GH but hearing its tantamount to the fountain of youth says alot.

JdFlex

Oh, I'm gonna start 200mgs EQ per week tomorrow. I've been waiting for a break in my business travels to allow for a 12 week cycle and its finally here. I know its a low dose but 200mgs of deca worked wonders so I have my fingers crossed! I've never used EQ before. Its great being on TRT b/c no PCT. GREAT!!

Aiden

Hi all,
i just want to gain my weight and fat,
please suggested me guys about it,
me waiting !!!!!