Low dose cycles--Truth and myth.

BASK8KACE

If you've read some of my posts on other boards, you probably already have seen that I advocate suggesting low doses for beginners . Why jump into 600mg per week of test as a first or second cycle when it is highly likely you will get great gains using 200-300mg (in initial cycles)?

I keep seeing people write that 200mg of testosterone per week does nothing more than shut down a man's natural test production and bring him near "normal levels"--this is not quite correct (part of the statement is correct part of it is not). This incorrect statement has endured probably because someone wrote down thier idea/theory of what happens in the body, it sounded good, and other people repeated it. But, it is not correct. Yes, 200mg of a long lasting ester of testosterone will shut down natural test production, BUT the amount of 200mg of a long lasting ester of testosterone is more than twice the "normal levels" of test in the body of a healthy non-steroid using male. Therefore, 200mg of a long lasting ester of testosterone per week is far more than enough to grow on.

(I explain more below)

I was paranoid about side effects of testosterone on a normally functioning body, so I had my blood levels checked while on 200-250mg per week. The results of the tests indicated that the amount of testosterone in my blood was more than twice the high end of the normal range (The normal free testosterone range is 50.0-210.0 pg/ml*. My levels were found to be near 550 pg/ml). I also talked to my doctor and UPJOHN nurses a lot about using testosterone at these doses. Here's a brief bit of what I've learned from my doctor, the UPJOHN nursing staff (UPJOHN was the original manufacturer of Depo-testosterone a.k.a Testosterone Cypionate.  The rights of Depo-testosterone was sold to PFIZER which now produces it under the name PHARMACIA), and professional medical documents:

*--NOTE: pg/ml is the correct unit notation.

Using a long acting ester testosterone (CYP and ENAN) does not mimic the normally functioning male body's circadian rhythm (daily rise and fall of testosterone). Testosterone, in a normally functioning body, does not explode up to high levels then gradually fall over a 1-2 week period as it does when injecting a testosterone such as CYP or ENAN. On the contrary, the body produces a small amount each day which is far below 200mg (It's around 10mg). That small amount is concentrated at the beginning of the day and then falls low by the end of the day. This process repeats itself every day and by the end of two weeks, a normally functioning body produces approximately 140mg of testosterone (appx. 70mg per week).

The use of long acting esters are in theory supposed to slowly release the testosterone over a two week period, but this is not quite what happens. To keep it simple, the delay of the esters actually allows large amounts of testosterone to build up--especially if you are taking 200mg every week as opposed to once every two weeks (biweekly) which is what the dose is supposed to be. (I'm simplifying here). Remember the "normally functioning" male produces only (appx.) 70mg per week (=140mg per two weeks). The dose doctors are recommended to perscribe is 200mg every 2 weeks (biweekly), but they tend to give 200mg every week.

So, it is fallacious reasoning to compare the TOTAL amount of testosterone produced in daily spurts in a normally functioning body over a 2 week period to the same amount of testosterone injected in one shot at the beginning of a week and reshot every week (before the previous week's dose is used up). The latter case (injections once per week) results in an overlap and build up of dose which causes the levels of testosterone to be HIGHER than normal. (Remember the shots should actually be 200mg every TWO weeks--not every week). These excess levels of testosterone are sufficient to build lean body mass faster than the "normally functioning" male.

In other words: addding up what the average male body produces per week then comparing that to the amount that is shot every week is like comparing apples to oranges. There is a whole diferent set of advantageous reactions happening in the body when it is given a full
2-week load (200mg) at the beginning of a week as opposed to getting naturally occuring, small, daily spurts of appx 10mg over the same period of time (2 weeks).

This is why a low dose cycle can yeild REASONABLE gains. Understand, I'm not talking mega-huge-fast gains. I'm talking noticably-faster-than-normal gains, which when coupled with a strict diet, sufficient rest and an excellent bodybuilding work ethic, can yeild large, solid gains (especially early in a person's cycle experience).

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A NOTE FROM BASK8KACE TO ALL READERS: I AM NOT A HEALTH PROFESSIONAL. I do not advocate the use of steroids. Do not assume that I know how to use steroids. I AM NOT QUALIFIED TO GIVE MEDICAL ADVICE. I am under the impression that this board (IronForLife) exists as a forum for pretending. The information that I share throughout this board (IronForLife) is for entertainment purposes only and is not meant to evoke any action by those who read it. Do not act on any advice or suggestions that I provide.

LACBodybuilder

This is a classic post from Bask8kace. Awesome work.

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Nixon

I thought about my dosage and stacking something with enan for my second cycle, but I wanted to see how I would react to another "low" dose cycle. My diet is better and I do cardio now even when bulking, and I'd have to say my gains are better than my first cycle (with the same dosage of my first cycle)

great post

redmeat

Good post. I use high doses but I agree you can accomplish a lot with low doses.

nathanw21

good post. thanks

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GET BIG OR DIE!!!

Massacre

Great post. Glad you're here.

'STEVO'

An excellent post backed up by facts. Read it on AR and now once again...

The Giant Cunny

Great post very informative.

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one thing is to goof off in the lounge, another thing is to be a blatant prick and infest the rest of the forum with your bullshit. people work really hard for the goals they've reached.

MaNofSteeL

Great post thanks man.

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Height: 5'9
Weight: 220lbs
BF%: About 14%

..still growing.

needtogetass

good shit

Codeblue

Thanks I was looking for this

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Loz

Old thread but is bump worthy. I was thinking while reading this, it would probably yeild longer term results running 250mg a week for 40 weeks than 500mg/wk for 20 weeks. And in theory it does make sense. You would be like a typical 15 male with twice the testosterone lifting and eating correctly. The results would be spectacular. Add some HGH and IGF in the mix and you would really have a good thing going.

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Dally

i always listened to this dude at ar when I first started there....since then I ran a 500mg prop and tren ace at the same..... I got ok results...diet wasnt there and I drank every weekend

next cycle same shit ...was a gram of each and same scenario...only difference was it was WAY harder to recover and neg sides were much more apparent...zits, agression, night sweats, and my nuts during pct were a bitch to get back.

this cycle is the lowest dose yet....its 350mg of prop and 260 mg tren ace and i have to say my gains came slower...not much slower but I have almost no bad sides... 1 5th the zits, no real agression, no night sweats etc....I have a feeling Im going to be able to recover much easier. The only thing I can add is that my strength has not blown up during this low dose...but thats not my goal, my goal is to maintain if not grow some more lbm and strip off my remaining tub to get ripped...and in all honesty its working for me quite well....or at least well enough that I know I will never run high doses if I do continue gear after this...its simply going to depend on my recovery and what I retain after pct is thru.

if it is successful and I reach my goals during and after pct is done...why would I ever go to a higher dose....I simply see no point in it for my goals.

thats my 3 cents.

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This country ...first, you gotta get the money;
then you get the power, and when you got the power, then you get the women....then, chico, you got the world by the balls.

*The Juddman*

bump..excellent thread...i'm going to be giving it a shot very soon

Nixon

what board does he post at mainly?

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All I have in this world is my balls and my word and I don't break 'em for no one

Nine months NATURAL

*The Juddman*

i see him on AR...i dont think he spends a whole lot of time on any particular board really

BASK8KACE

I post at several boards, but occasionally go into lurk mode while enjoying my real life (away from the computer).



I no longer post at AR due to several unfortunate situations and severe misunderstandings a long time ago. I was promoted to Mod there, but turned down the position and shortly after joined this board.



Thanks for all the positive feedback about this post and thanks to whomever made it a sticky. I hope it helps people.

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A NOTE FROM BASK8KACE TO ALL READERS: I AM NOT A HEALTH PROFESSIONAL. I do not advocate the use of steroids. Do not assume that I know how to use steroids. I AM NOT QUALIFIED TO GIVE MEDICAL ADVICE. I am under the impression that this board (IronForLife) exists as a forum for pretending. The information that I share throughout this board (IronForLife) is for entertainment purposes only and is not meant to evoke any action by those who read it. Do not act on any advice or suggestions that I provide.

*The Juddman*

excellent bro....thanks for stopping by

adida

nice read..

rockape76

ive been a strong advocate of lo dose cycles for a long time ....why jump a growth threshold? they are especially effective for those below there natural max...

danzig

I just started my first real cycle 2 days ago , its low doses of D-bol & winny . I'm very excited about it . I've been working hard for 6 years and have resisted the temptation even though those around me were taking steroids . I hope to get up to 170-175 lbs . I'm at 160lbs now . Wish me luck !

Clarence

Where is the best online place to get juice?

TheBrent

www.jambajuice.com

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Surf's Up

Loz

Not here. Do not ask again.

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D3m3nt3d

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D3m3nt3d

By the way - very informative post as always bro.

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hicktown

good stuff B

hicktown

Good post mane! i agree low doses work pretty dam good if your not expecting drastic gains right off the bat.

so many ppl posted in this thread arent around anymore.. weird